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Brauniver · Joined: Jan 7, 2011 Posts: 2

Hi Jarek

Since SCP is not possible with Bioexplorer I am wondering whether it is possible with Bioera since Cygnet is based on Bioera.

Is Bioera as good as Cygnet for SCP with a QDS Focus?

jarek · Joined: Oct 22, 2007 Posts: 1073

If by SCP you mean Slow Cortical Potentials training, then it should be possible in BioEra providing someone who understands the method creates a design. I don't know anything about it, but I see no reason why it wouldn't work in BioEra.

Jarek

Brauniver · Joined: Jan 7, 2011 Posts: 2

Thanks Jarek for the infos!

GMartin · Joined: Feb 5, 2010 Posts: 308

My understanding is that Cygnet software is not technically doing SCP (a DC signal) but infra-low frequencies. They use a low pass filter, the high frequency of which goes to .0001 hz. The other question for you to answer is regarding the frequency response of the QDS focus. The info needed would be the amount of roll off in the amps low frequency response so you can tell if there is still a usable signal from the amp at the infra low frequencies.

George

snovotill · Joined: Feb 8, 2013 Posts: 80

I'm training SCP in BioExplorer. It's not a problem. You'll be DC coupled all the way through so filtering doesn't matter. Just run a 500ms moving average over the signal to filter out the HF and train for a null. If your device has a DC offset then subtract it out. If it has thermal drift then you'll be out of luck. PET-EEG is excellent. I especially like to train differential between T4 and P4; It's the most profound relaxation I've ever had, and great prep for Alpha-Theta or visual entrainment or whatever. I'm looking forward to purchasing ver 3 of BioEra though - much more powerful =) in that you can mix and match modules into a multi-modality design.

LSmith49 · Joined: Mar 4, 2013 Posts: 1

Is there any way to train infra-low frequencys in BioExplorer?

snovotill · Joined: Feb 8, 2013 Posts: 80

As far as I can tell, training infra-low and training SCP are the same thing. The folks that I've trained SCP with all have oscillations in the range of aprox 1.5 Hz through perhaps 0.1 Hz, as well as a dc offset that's a bit more difficult to learn to control. My favorite is differential between P4 and T4, and I train for a null, although I suppose one could try to modulate to a veeeeeeeeeery slow running sinewave or something. Best train in BioEra so you can have more flexible design. I only train in BioExplorer because I had already written my protocol in it.

Likeeg · Joined: May 22, 2013 Posts: 1

I really disagree that SCP and ILF is the same thing. They may reflect a similar process - but the training is very very different. The Tuebinger Protocoll for SCP does not have continous feedback and there is no adjustment or change in the way the frequecies are used for training.
I give an example: In ILF you have a montage which is sequential and not referential (bipolar vs. unipolar)
In SCP the training is to be rewarded for an up or down of the SCP in the desired direction. You have to find the optimum frequency in ILF but not in SCP.

snovotill · Joined: Feb 8, 2013 Posts: 80

I understand Montage to mean Electrode Placement. Under Othmer they progress through a sequence of montages but train one site at a time. When you train single site then bipolar = differential. By frequency I understand that one modulates their SCP at some specific rate; I mean look - at 0.1mHz you're talking of time constants lasting many minutes or hours so frankly it doesn't make any sense to me at all in the ordinary context of classical neurofeedback training \"frequencies\". If someone can point to clinical info shedding real light on this subject then that would be very satisfying. The whole thing seems to be some kind of trade-secret and perhaps the area is more smoke and mirrors than it is fact, but in any case SCP training works well for me personally, and all I do is train for a specific offset or a null. Training to a slow moving target on the order of mHz can be accomplished by simply shifting your training reference from time to time during the session. More discussion on this would be great, especially if based upon peer reviewed clinical research or personal experience.

Stepan

snovotill · Joined: Feb 8, 2013 Posts: 80

http://stresstherapysolutions.com/kb/file/127/36/
\"One Size Fits All? Slow Cortical Potentials Neurofeedback: A Review.pdf\"

This covers Tuebinger and other methods. I only use SCP on myself and I only use raw data for feedback. In this context it's all the same to me, but I can certainly appreciate how significant differences in protocol and application can arise, once you attempt to massage this into a clinical environment for use on ordinary patients having no experience in meditation and other esoteric mind-related arts. Still, I'm puzzled by all this microHz stuff and what it might really mean. ...Stepan

jaygattis · Joined: Nov 15, 2007 Posts: 6

I know this thread is long gone but in case anyone is interested:
http://www.bec-eeg.com/resources/infra-low-frequency-a-proposed-mechanism/